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Sorry to hear about your coolant loss saga.
Have you had a read of this similar 'coolant loss' thread a while ago which turned out to be a slight crack in a coolant pipe at the rear of the engine
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Thanks. Yes I read that at the time, though it was in a diesel if that makes a difference. Didn't seem to fit my symptoms that well though.

They tested the coolant pump and it is reporting a basic (700rpm?) operating speed when it needed to be around 2000. And that didn't vary at all, plus they think it wasn't actually rotating at all!
 

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Whilst the failure of the pump to operate correctly would explain overheating, it doesn't in itself explain the loss of coolant. Overheating would cause the system pressure to rise, and if it rises beyond the maximum operating pressure , I would expect to see the relief valve open, which would result in evidence of coolant or staining around the cap. If that isn't happening, the question still has to be, where is it going?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Indeed, I'm very sceptical that there aren't other issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
They don't need the loan car back until at least Tuesday they say if that's fine with me (which it is).
The dealer have been helpful extending the loan car, though I won't need it much this weekend. However, due presumably to other customer commitments, they want to collect it late on Monday.
At least they will send someone to pick it up which is considerate.
But if Volvo can't supply the replacement pump for a few days that will give me a problem, I can manage a couple of days without a regular car but no longer, not all week.

Should I be talking to Volvo themselves, rather than the dealer, to see what they think of their inability to supply a water pump in a sensible timescale and if they can help in any way?
Given it's a modern VEA engine I would expect it's actually a common part to several engines, so I'm surprised there are none in the country (as I was told).
What information would I need (e.g. a parts order reference) and who would be best to call?

Talking to a retired garage proprietor that I know he speculated that the impeller of the pump could have come loose from the motor spindle and that the measurement of pump RPM may be simply based on electrical load so any management systems were being totally misled. Does anyone here know how the pump speed is managed and controlled?
 

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I don't think you have anything to lose by involving Volvo customer services, and potentially there may be something to gain.

For the last 2 years or thereabouts though, worldwide problems of various sorts all conspiring together have meant that manufacturers are struggling to obtain sufficient supplies of parts, and that what would normally have been destined to keep spares supply levels at normal volume can often be diverted to production lines at short notice, to keep production running and staff employed.

As regards the pump operation, it appears as I would have suspected to be controlled by the ECM over the LIN bus, using information from various sensors that is sent to the ECM informing it of various operating conditions.

I don't know, but would assume that Vida has the capability to simulate various conditions through signals to the ECM as a way to test the capability of the pump to respond correctly to the instructions that are sent to it, and identify faults.

This is from Vida:

The demand controlled electric water pump is controlled by the ECM (Engine Control Module) via LIN communication. The speed varies between 750-5800rpm depending on the cooling demand.

Maximum speed demand is prioritised. The pump can supply a maximum of approximately 2l/sec. On certain occasions, such as cold starts or at idle, the water pump does not usually run. This partly reduces the load on the engine, thereby reducing fuel consumption. In other cases, so that the engine can reach operating temperature faster. E.g. when the pump starts:
•If heat to the passenger compartment is requested, the electric water pump starts in order to supply water to the heat exchanger.
•At high output, the water pump starts in order to prevent local heating peaks in e.g the cylinder head and turbo.
•When the coolant temperature approaches the ideal temperature (90° C or 105° C degrees, depending on the driving conditions) the water pump starts. This is to create a uniform temperature distribution in the engine and across the thermostat when the thermostat opens.
•If cooling is required, after the engine has been switched off, the water pump always starts together with the cooling fan to cool the coolant.
•The electric water pump is also used to circulate the coolant during Start/Stop.

A thermostat is installed as a complete unit together with the thermostat housing. The thermostat consists of a traditional wax thermostat and an electrically heated heating element. In the wax thermostat's core (in the wax) there is a heating element that is demand controlled by the ECM. This causes the engine temperature to be regulated as required. The thermostat opens in two different ways:
•Traditional opening via the wax element.
•Demand controlled opening via addition of extra heat in the wax element by the electrically heated wax element.

During normal driving, the outdoor temperature below about 30° C and non-activated sport mode, the thermostat opens in the traditional manner at 105° C. At higher opening temperatures this results in cleaner exhaust gases and lower fuel consumption. At higher loads, outdoor temperatures above about 30° C or sport mode selected, the thermostat opens at 90° C using the heating element. At higher loads more cooling is required.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Many thanks for that, an extremely useful explanation. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
So I spoke to Volvo Customer Care this afternoon after the dealership were unable to give me an update. :(
All the dealer could tell me was that the pump hadn't arrived, no tracking information or ETA.
The only useful information I got was the part number ordered 313 687 15. Nothing else, not even any seals, o-rings, gaskets etc. which surprised me.
I'm currently awaiting more information from Volvo, including whether additional items such as seals should be renewed, but mainly where on earth the part is and why they don't have any in the UK.
My online researches indicate that this is a pretty standard unit used across a whole range of Volvo cars with Drive-E engines so lack of stock is a surprise.
 

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Looking at Vida, the pump connects to two rigid pipes. One has an O-ring, the second an internal seal and an external mechanical locking system. There are no gaskets. It may be that the O-ring is supplied with the pump.

There seems to be plenty of availability for aftermarket pumps, including Pierburg, who are OEM manufacturers for many brands, and may be for Volvo too, although I don't know for certain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Yes indeed, hence my surprise at lack of availability.
My long experience of motor parts supply is that unless you actually buy a "kit" you get only the part you order, no seals, o-rings etc. are ever included.
One supplier of Pierburg has a link to a video showing how to change it on a V60 which did involve a new o-ring. That involved removing the intake manifold too (though they did also change the thermostat) and recommended replacing the gasket on that, plus checking/cleaning various other exposed parts such as the throttle body.

No updates as yet from either Volvo or the dealer.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The best I got today was a late afternoon email from Volvo Customer Care saying that the pump left Sweden on Monday but typically would take a week to get to the dealer.
No tracking information, no ETA. No indication if it's on a truck routed via a P&O ferry. No comment re o-rings....
I tried calling the dealer too, reception took a message this morning, no-one called back. Par for the course? :poop:
 

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My long experience of motor parts supply is that unless you actually buy a "kit" you get only the part you order, no seals, o-rings etc. are ever included.
I find Volvo better than average, but still surprising. The VEA timing belt kit for instance, is supplied with a complete set of stretch bolts for the crankshaft pulley and belt tension pulley, whereas as you say the norm is to expect to have to purchase parts such as tension bolts separately, as a timing belt kit often only includes the belt and belt pulleys.

But having recognised that the crankshaft pulley has to be removed, and as a result the bolts must be renewed, you still have to obtain the pulley washer as a separate part, even though that must also be replaced whenever the pulley is removed :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Update, the pump arrived at the dealer this afternoon and they're working on it now. No ETA as yet and I want it THOROUGHLY checked over before it comes back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Still has problems. :(
The pump is fitted and working but the coolant is still pressurising excessively. They're talking to Volvo about it.
So no car back this weekend.
I guess potentially we're looking at leaking head gasket, or worse a damaged cylinder head or block. Whatever it is, it's likely to be as a consequence of the pump failure.
 

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Sorry to hear of your problems, just been reading through as prompted on the oil consumption post. Suppose you'll have to decide if it is economically viable if it's the head gasket, must of racked up a bill as it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
There's some sort of acknowledgement from Volvo that this shouldn't happen, they offered and I accepted, a "contribution" towards the cost of replacing the pump. I won't say what that is at this stage other than it wasn't 100%.
However, if there is subsequent damage I'd expect much more support from Volvo on that, as I'm sure we all would.
 

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There's some sort of acknowledgement from Volvo that this shouldn't happen, they offered and I accepted, a "contribution" towards the cost of replacing the pump. I won't say what that is at this stage other than it wasn't 100%.
However, if there is subsequent damage I'd expect much more support from Volvo on that, as I'm sure we all would.
I hope so, keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
And the next stage of the diagnosis is that the thermostat needs replacing. A similar "contribution" was offered on that without needing to ask.
They say that is all that is needed.
I'm not convinced how/why that is needed or will solve the problems, but we'll see. Should get it back tomorrow.
 
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Well I suppose you have to trust them and if it goes **** up they'll have to be accountable for it. Let us know.
 
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